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FT-450详解(I0GEJ) [复制链接]

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离线BD3RJ
 
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只看楼主 倒序阅读 0楼 发表于: 2007-08-09
ft-450at receiver circuit analysis and simplified block diagram

ft-450at receiver circuit analysis and simplified block diagram vs describes this radio as a real dx receiver! "the 67.899 mhz 4-pole roofing filter (mcf) and 8 band-pass filters at the rf stage provide excellent suppression of out-of-band interference". the receiver is dual conversion; the 1st if is 67.899 mhz. the 24 khz 2nd if is passed directly to the dsp circuit. after the 8-section bpf, the rf signal is fed, along with the lo, to the active dbm (doubly balanced) 1st mixer - either via the rf preamp (2 x 2sk520 jfet) or directly (ipo "on").

a single 4-pole mcf roofing filter, with 10 khz bandwidth and an optimum shape factor, follows the 1st mixer. the 1st if signal leaving the roofing filter passes via the 3sk151 1st if amplifier to an image-reject 2nd mixer which down-converts it to 24 khz in one step. the 24 khz 2nd if drives the dsp (an adi "blackfin" type adsp - bf531sbst).

the ft-450 should be available in italy at the end of june 2007, at a price of approx. 1000 euro (without at).

ft-450 - bottom view and top view - at version with atu-450 autotuner, and overall front view: news items and images offering a "sneak peek" always provoke a great deal interest on the various mailing-lists - especially when they are provided in anticipation of the technical and operational data accompanying ft-450 product release. these pages are intended not only to facilitate this, but also to allow potential owners to become acquainted with the architecture, basic design concepts and implementation of the ft-450 - and to compare it to other radios.

the radio appears solidly constructed, in a die-cast aluminum chassis, well laid-out and clean - without untidy internal cables and wiring. this compact rig has a new packaging design to attain that useful and much-sought-after "simplicity of operation" with all important functions easily accessible, in contrast to the multiple controls of previous models.
ft-450 - structural examination and components of transmitter pa unit and front display. the new, compact transceiver from vs/yaesu incorporates technology derived from the recently ft-2000 project. in effect, as can be seen clearly from the two juxtaposed pictures (below), the pa uses 2 mitsubishi rd100hhf1 mosfet's in push-pull, with vdd = 13.8v. the pa unit is built up on one pc board, which also comprises the transmit low-pass filters (lpf) with their bandswitching relays. the pa is similar to that employed in the well-known ft-2000.

the following relay types are utilized for bandswitching: 2 x ag201344 for 50 mhz and 12 x omron g5v-1 for the other (hf) bands. the other mosfets on the pa unit are 2 x rd16hhf1 (driver), and 1 x rd06hhf1 (pre-driver).

the backlit lcd display shows all data and graphical indications required for effective operator control of the radio. the generously-sized screen also features a chart, in block-diagram format, showing which controls and features are activated, including adjustment of the digital (dsp) if filter.

as in the ft-2000, bar-graph displays are provided for the contour, notch, dnr , width and shift controls, and for other indications.
ft450 - a new hf/50mhz transceiver from vertex-standard

           as can be seen in the photo, the new ft-450 is built into a die-cast aluminium chassis, which encloses all the circuit modules. the atu-450 autotuner, covering all bands 160 to 6m, is located in the underside of the chassis. it is optional on the ft-450 and factory-fitted on the ft-450at version.

the pa employs 2 mitsubishi rd100hhf1 mosfets in push-pull, and delivers 100w. it is also designed for demanding operation such as contesting. the same power devices are used in the ft-2000.


as shown below, the ft-450 transceiver features a new if dsp circuit which utilizes an ic from the new analog devices blackfin dsp processor family. the adsp-bf531 sbstz400 is a new dsp ic which is similar to that employed in the new icom ic-7000 except for instrucion and data sram capacity (see table.)


product release of the new hf/50 mhz transceiver is expected early in may 2007. the ft-450 is an innovative radio for its price class; it is simple to operate and feature-rich. it incorporates a newly-designed if-dsp at the 24 khz 2nd if. in this radio, yaesu is using an adi blackfin adsp-531. it has a single receiver, but is fitted with a quick split function.


the ft-450 has if width, if shift, contour, digital nr and notch filter, which are adjustable via simple controls (as compared to the 9000 and 2000 series.) finally, we see a rig with few knobs, and can hope for optimum ergonomic efficiency. the radio features a large front-panel display which presents many functions and settings to the operator. the front-end roofing filter is a 10 khz bpf at the 67.899 mhz 1st if. this is an intermediate value, which should clean up the 1st mixer output and protect the 2nd mixer from strong out-of-band signals. [translator's note: the 2nd mixer, which down-converts 67.899 mhz to 24 khz in one step, is probably an i/q image-reject mixer similar to that found in the icom ic-7800.] among other features, a dedicated port is provided for the digital modes, as well as an internal autotuner (optional on the ft-450, standard on the ft-450at.)
re are some preliminary notes in anticipation of the imminent product launch of the new yaesu 100w hf/50 mhz transceiver. for now, a prototype picture is available. the radio is dual-conversion: 1st if 67.899mhz - 2nd if 24khz. if-dsp at the 24 khz if. the dsp ic has a 36.864 mhz clock frequency. din sockets for data/tuner, linear and cat are provided.
     
     the fcc (usa) has already granted equipment certification (fcc id: k6620241x50.) note that as for other new-product announcements stating "device not approved", this d
离线老干部
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7646
只看该作者 1楼 发表于: 2007-08-09
都用ad的dsp呀,以前y和i分别是走ti和ad路线的,看样子450的dsp部分是另启炉灶设计的。
此外外现在的机器pa后的lpf电容越来越小了,真不知道能顶多长时间。
离线樊绍民
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只看该作者 2楼 发表于: 2007-08-09
祝贺3rj荣升一级!

ba1eo/樊绍民
离线BA7EI
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7096
只看该作者 3楼 发表于: 2007-08-09
只能往好处想:现在的LPF电容可能用的是贱金属电极,不大会发生金银电极的原子迁移造成失效吧
[quote=老干部]都用ad的dsp呀,以前y和i分别是走ti和ad路线的,看样子450的dsp部分是另启炉灶设计的。
此外外现在的机器pa后的lpf电容越来越小了,真不知道能顶多长时间。[/quote]

                                                                                                                  
离线BD3RJ
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18844
只看该作者 4楼 发表于: 2007-08-09
[quote=樊绍民]祝贺3rj荣升一级!

ba1eo/樊绍民[/quote]
谢谢樊老师,以后还得请您过来指导一下无线电活动.
离线BA7NO
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4323
只看该作者 5楼 发表于: 2007-08-09
这机器性能好吗?
离线BD3RJ
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18844
只看该作者 6楼 发表于: 2007-08-10
[quote=bg7 msn]这机器性能好吗?[/quote]
关键是性价比好,你那边应该有好几个ham买了吧?
离线bd4acw
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只看该作者 7楼 发表于: 2007-08-10
'
关键是性价比好,你那边应该有好几个ham买了吧?
'

大概要多少米?
离线BD3RJ
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18844
只看该作者 8楼 发表于: 2007-08-10
'
大概要多少米?
'
在香港是7500港元.
离线BA7NO
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4323
只看该作者 9楼 发表于: 2007-08-10
'
关键是性价比好,你那边应该有好几个ham买了吧?
'
你说的没错.价格好啊!好像某老大过几天要去港抬一个 :d
离线BA7EI
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7096
只看该作者 10楼 发表于: 2007-09-09
性价比到底是什么?能够科学详细的解释一下吗?
'
关键是性价比好,你那边应该有好几个ham买了吧?
''
在香港是7500港元.
'

100w的旧设备,ft80c似乎非常便宜,而且很多ba老腿用了十年了;
100w的新设备,好像7500港币以下的设备有很多选择!
你这"性价比好"是怎么算的?

最后请来点真格的:
能不能谈谈"the 67.899 mhz 4-pole roofing filter (mcf)"装上去后整机的67.899 mhz第一中频的特性?
离线BD3RJ
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只看该作者 11楼 发表于: 2007-09-10
'
100w的旧设备,ft80c似乎非常便宜,而且很多ba老腿用了十年了;
100w的新设备,好像7500港币以下的设备有很多选择!
你这"性价比好"是怎么算的?
最后请来点真格的:
能不能谈谈"the 67.899 mhz 4-pole roofing filter (mcf)"装上去后整机的67.899 mhz第一中频的特性?
'
1,谈的是新机器,80c以及老ba无关。
2,7500hk以下有多少选择?请举例
3,传统只有15khz,现在多了6khz 3kz的选择,第1提高了选择性防止了互调,第2在2if可以使用便宜的450khz陶瓷滤波器降低整机成本。
离线BA7EI
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7096
只看该作者 12楼 发表于: 2007-09-10
请问450khz陶瓷滤波器装在FT-450AT的什么地方?你了解FT-450AT吗?
[quote=bd3rj(实际上是ba3rj)]1,谈的是新机器,80c以及老ba无关。
2,7500hk以下有多少选择?请举例
3,传统只有15khz,现在多了6khz 3kz的选择,第1提高了选择性防止了互调,第2在2if可以使用便宜的450khz陶瓷滤波器降低整机成本。[/quote]

看来继续谈所谓的事实上又可以被机评砖家翻云覆雨的“性价比”可能难得有结论。

别打马虎眼,请先睁大你的眼睛看清楚ft-450at的第一和第二中频的频率以后再来当日本鬼子的吹鼓手!向大家推荐自己了解的真正物美价廉的日本业余电台是雷锋精神,但你连这非常明显的地方都讲错,让看客都觉得你太不敬业了。

另外请继续回答"the 67.899 mhz 4-pole roofing filter (mcf)"装上去后整机的67.899 mhz第一中频的特性,这决定设备档次。

自从去年起,我就比较注意私下了解bg4iht、ba6ig、bd8uk等纯粹玩机常规通联派买入后至少一年内不准备转让出去的自用设备,他们的选择更带有客观性。
离线BD3RJ
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18844
只看该作者 13楼 发表于: 2007-09-10
改错:2if 24khz 2if 24khz 2if 24khz 2if 24khz 2if 24khz 2if 24khz 2if 24khz 2if 24khz 2if 24khz 2if 24khz 2if 24khz 2if 24khz 2if 24khz 2if 24khz 2if 24khz 2if 24khz
离线BA7EI
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7096
只看该作者 14楼 发表于: 2007-09-10
亡羊补牢?为何不回答整机的67.899 MHz第一中频的特性?为何要回避这问题?想隐藏什么呢?
'
改错:2if 24khz 2if 24khz 2if 24khz 2if 24khz 2if 24khz 2if 24khz 2if 24khz 2if 24khz 2if 24khz 2if 24khz 2if 24khz 2if 24khz 2if 24khz 2if 24khz 2if 24khz 2if 24khz
'


另外我只去bg7kpp的▒ 宾利ham器材中心 ▒ 看了一下:

yaesu-ft-857d短波hf/v/u机,价格5650元人民币 (不含邮费)

yaesu-ft-897d短波hf/v/u机,价格5850元人民币 (不含邮费)

icom-ic-718专业台式短波机,价格4280元人民币 (不含邮费)

外汇牌价 http://www.boc.cn/cn/common/whpj.html


日期:2007/09/10
货币名称 现汇买入价 现钞买入价 卖出价 基准价 中行折算价 发布时间
英镑 1522.35 1490.25 1534.58 1526.98 1526.98 1742
港币 96.47 95.69 96.83 96.72 96.72 1742
美元 750.64 744.62 753.64 752.52 752.52 1742
离线BD3RJ
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18844
只看该作者 15楼 发表于: 2007-09-10
是新出的吗?
离线bg2ob
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只看该作者 16楼 发表于: 2007-09-10
我觉得没有必要太关注ft-450的第一中频滤波器,虽然yaesu强调了10khz的带宽,但是它用了较窄的第一中频滤波器是因为必须要克服第二中频24khz过低导致的第二中频镜像干扰问题,第二中频的镜像频率离目标频率只相差48khz,所以第一中频必须要有足够的窄。

像icom的具备了中频dsp的机器虽然没有用10khz的第一中频滤波器,但是用了455khz的第二中频滤波器,这样就可以抑制最后的数字中频过低导致的镜像干扰问题,效果是同样的。如果一定要有区别的话,是在第一中频放大器中互调产物问题,ft-450第一中频放大器的输入信号带宽是比icom的窄,但是只要这一级的动态范围足够,那么两种方案的效果是一样的,ft-450并不会因为具备了10khz带宽的第一中频滤波器而有特别的抗干扰能力。它仅仅是为了解决从67.899mhz直接变到24khz时发生的镜像干扰问题而已。
离线BA7EI
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7096
只看该作者 17楼 发表于: 2007-09-10
请回答整机的67.899 MHz第一中频的特性指标和参数,不要跑题,既然是"FT-450详解",就应当提供这个数据
'
我觉得没有必要太关注ft-450的第一中频滤波器,虽然yaesu强调了10khz的带宽,但是它用了较窄的第一中频滤波器是因为必须要克服第二中频24khz过低导致的第二中频镜像干扰问题,第二中频的镜像频率离目标频率只相差48khz,所以第一中频必须要有足够的窄。
像icom的具备了中频dsp的机器虽然没有用10khz的第一中频滤波器,但是用了455khz的第二中频滤波器,这样就可以抑制最后的数字中频过低导致的镜像干扰问题,效果是同样的。如果一定要有区别的话,是在第一中频放大器中互调产物问题,ft-450第一中频放大器的输入信号带宽是比icom的窄,但是只要这一级的动态范围足够,那么两种方案的效果是一样的,ft-450并不会因为具备了10khz带宽的第一中频滤波器而有特别的抗干扰能力。它仅仅是为了解决从67.899mhz直接变到24khz时发生的镜像干扰问题而已。
'

请直接回答问题,不要顾左右而言他来"闪烁其词",至于理论层面分析,暂时先等关键性数据来了再说
离线bg2ob
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只看该作者 18楼 发表于: 2007-09-10
'
请直接回答问题,不要顾左右而言他而"闪烁其词"
'

我不是“闪烁其词”,而是不知道!根本不知道。我跑题了,不好意思!
离线BG1JBR
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只看该作者 19楼 发表于: 2007-09-16
'
另外我只去bg7kpp的▒ 宾利ham器材中心 ▒ 看了一下:
yaesu-ft-857d短波hf/v/u机,价格5650元人民币 (不含邮费)
yaesu-ft-897d短波hf/v/u机,价格5850元人民币 (不含邮费)
icom-ic-718专业台式短波机,价格4280元人民币 (不含邮费)
外汇牌价 http://www.boc.cn/cn/common/whpj.html
日期:2007/09/10
货币名称 现汇买入价 现钞买入价 卖出价 基准价 中行折算价 发布时间
英镑 1522.35 1490.25 1534.58 1526.98 1526.98 17[表情]42
港币 96.47 95.69 96.83 96.72 96.72 17[表情]42
美元 750.64 744.62 753.64 752.52 752.52 17[表情]42
'


技术问题不太懂,但好像ft450有两个版本。一是ft450 一是‘ft450at 如果按ft450at的价格计算对比,那么就要加上那个897基本没用的专用天调的价格以后再进行对比,这是其一。另外如果性能上要说使用上的对比,那么至少897需要加上那两片cw 和ssb滤波器才能跟ft450对比。
那么我们算下来:
ft450at 按照kpp价格 约等于8800
ft897d+天调+两片滤波器 肯定高于这个数字了吧?对了还有一个温补.....好像也是好几大百。

至于ic718我记得一个朋友问过如果把滤波器加全了的价格........就是没记清楚 谁有兴趣可以也看看,我记得肯定是不便宜。

另外就是关于技术问题,好像单独的讨论哪种好与不好基本没什么意义,用起来好的不管是不是高新科技就是最好的。
这有点像美国人花了上千万美金研究怎么让太空人在空间站书写(需要解决很多笔的出水问题)一样,苏联人用铅笔解决了这个问题。

呵呵 个人观点 完全是插话插话, 各位专家请继续。